Zing Orbiit vs KNK Force

Sampheap

I have been using MaxxAir24" so far. I love the machine but when it comes to print/emboss/score and cut, it not easy or I can say not practical with manual laser alignment for large productions.
I am also using Cameo 1, the automatic optical alignment is very reliable; the machine is slow and cannot cut 350gsm laminated cardstock clean in a single pass though.

I am now looking for a backup, and I have two in mind: Obit vs Force.
I wonder if the Force camera is automatic and more reliable than the optical one in the Orbit? With the camera, we still need to manually adjust alignment, so let say if I am to print and cut 100 cardstock, so there will be tedious!?

I love the Force for its rotary tool and dual heads, but if the Orbit alignment is far better and automatic like Cameo's, then I can just do it twice on the same cardstock if I want it embossed and cut?

Crazy_Mr_Zing

I have a force and I find the camera for print and cut alignment works very well
I also like the convenience of having dual tool hold allow for a cut and crease

I have no experience with the orbit

Knk have 2 new machines currently in development that will also use camera technology https://knkusa.com/knk-maxx-duo/

Sampheap

Crazy_Mr_Zing said:

I have a force and I find the camera for print and cut alignment works very well
I also like the convenience of having dual tool hold allow for a cut and crease

I have no experience with the orbit

Knk have 2 new machines currently in development that will also use camera technology https://knkusa.com/knk-maxx-duo/

I have been reviewing the camera feature with C3 software, it seems not yet automatic as we still have to manually adjust to the registration marks? So if we are to PNC 100 boxes, will that be to adjust 100 times too?

P.S: There might a long wait for the Maxx-Duo

Liz_A

@Sampheap - the Force has both manual and automatic registration mark detection in C3 as well as in the software SCAL, which has been the software of choice now for all the recent KNK cutters. Refer to chapter 6 for print and cut with calibration first, and then section 6.08 for automatic print and cut. The correct reg marks to use can be downloaded, or refer to 6.14 for creating your own reg marks.

http://www.iloveknk.com/0um/Force-with-C3/KNKForce-with-C3-UM.pdf

SandyMcC

That's not true about C3... it's been automatic for well over a year now. In fact, it had to be in place before SCAL could add automatic.  What's really nice is that you can do it either way. For example, if for some reason the camera fails to automatically detect a mark, (such as if the ink smeared during printing), then you can switch to manual.  But otherwise, automatic will work.

This being said, I personally URGE you to wait for the Maxx Duo.  I was sent a Skycut D recently for writing the UM and it is basically the same cutter as the Maxx Duo but the Duo will have some of the features KNK prefers to have, like a fully open blade holder seat for using your own tools.  The Duo is going to be a dream machine based on what I'm experiencing with the Skycut D.  Calibration is a PIECE OF CAKE... all done using the control panel... and this includes calibrating the camera (an improved version of the Force one), as well as calibrating any two tools for alignment.  You can also use the camera for setting a precise origin... something you cannot do on the Force.  The only thing that you might NOT like is that it does require using SCAL for cutting since MTC no longer adds new plugins.

The issue with the new Maxx Duo table design has been worked out so production should begin later in January.  

Sampheap

KNK Force, the camera, beside manual, can also be automatic just like the optical one - insert the printed cardstock > PNC > Repeat ?

Yes, I did watch a few PNC videos of Skycut, but what I could see is the manual adjustment of the red dot to the reg mark?

SandyMcC

Yes.  You do have to align the blade over the lower right reg mark before starting the PNC, but from there, the camera finds that mark and then the others automatically. You don't have to do any manual alignment.

The same is true on the Skycut. What you saw in the videos was how to initially calibrate the camera on the Skycut. Once it's calibrated, it works the same way as the Force. You place the blade over the first reg mark and then press start and it does the rest for you. If you're doing repeats, then just make sure the printout is placed in the same location on the mat each time and you insert the mat into the cutter the same way each time and that makes it faster for repeats.  I recommend you look into the Skycut because you can order directly from them and the shipping is probably significantly less for you than trying to buy a cutter from the USA or Australia. Again, I REALLY love the Skycut for print and cut projects but it would require buying Sure Cuts A Lot. 

Sampheap

So to clarify, it will still need the first manual reg mark alignment? Unlike the optical which will do all automatic in Cameo / Orbit? 

Crazy_Mr_Zing

 Even with the orbit you need to direct the machine to position of the first mark
By using a workflow where you position the printout for repeat job in the same position on the mat
then put the mat in the machine in the same position is was previously
that would eliminate the need to move the head to align with the first reg mark each time as it would already be in that position

I have no experience with cameo cutters only what I read but I assume due to load mat process the machine can then determine where it should move the head to be able to read the first reg mark

SandyMcC

When I have repeated PNCs to do, after the first one, I don't have to set the first mark, just as @Crazy_Mr_Zing stated. I just slide the mat in until the blade holder is approximately over the lower right mark. It doesn't have to exact at all. Just close enough so that when the ZO or the Force or the Skycut starts scanning, it will find that first mark.  There is a hassle with the ZO because after it scans all of the marks, you have to them press Enter twice for the cutting to begin. This is something we've asked the owner of SCAL to change so that it automatically starts cutting after scanning but he has prioritized it.  With the Force and Skycut models, that step isn't needed.