Help with Zing Orbit

mausbon

I am having issues cutting out the Mickey Mouse Ears. I can't get 2 clean cuts to save my life. I have tried resticking the mat, adjusting the knife blades. I have gone thru at least 30 sheets of paper. I have attached what the cut looks like.

MeFlick

What kind of paper are you trying to cut? Also, what cut depth and pressure are you using? Speed? What blade are you using? What blade offset do you have set? The more details of your present setup you provide like the answers to those questions, the better someone can try to help you troubleshoot.

mausbon

I am using recollections 65 # and Joanns 65#, my blade offset is .30, my cut is 75 pressure 15 speed, the red blade.

SandyMcC

The cut lines that you see on the cutting mat, can you scratch them away with your fingernail or are they too deep to scratch away?

mausbon

@SandyMcC
I can't scratch them away.

SandyMcC

Okay, so lessen the blade exposure until you can. I recommend using the "Donut" shape as a test cut. I set mine at 0.35" for cutting so that I don't waste much material. After cutting, you can lift out the shape and see if the inner circle cut into your mat or not without having to lift up all of the material.

If the blade is cutting deep into the mat, lessen the blade exposure by, say, a quarter of a turn counter-clockwise and cut again. You can do this without removing the blade holder from the ZO.  Leave the pressure the same, just lessen the blade.  If it still cuts so deep you cannot remove the cut lines by scratching, then decrease more. If the cut isn't complete then turn the blade holder back about 1/8 turn clockwise. This is a great way to hone in on the perfect amount to cut cleanly but not leave a deep cut which will result in tearing, dulling your blade sooner than needed, and cutting up your mat. 

mausbon

@SandyMcC
I have tried your suggestions, I have increased the pressure to 100 and this is all of my tries (see below).

I have made so many adjustments, I don't know what is what. Either it tears or it doesn't cut through.

I need to cut these 100 ears for invites and I can't cut one decent file. I even got out my Silhouette Cameo and the cut lines were perfect but the blade assembly is not moving well. One of the reasons I upgraded to the Zing. 

I was the one in tears with trying to get ZO to work on wifi (which you helped) however because of our 5g needs I can't use the bluetooth.

I am thinking I just need a new blade, but I don't have time to order, I need to get these invites done this weekend.

Sorry for the vent.

Liz_A

OK from @mausbon - from what I can see you are cutting Bazzill. This is a thicker, porous and fibrous paper, so you need to have the paper dry and crisp in order for it to cut on any cutter. If you live in a higher humidity area, or its been raining a lot where you are, this can have a profound effect on your paper, it will suck up that moisture and then its like trying to - pardon the graphic - wet toilet tissue. You are not ever going to get a crisp cut. Paper can be dried in an oven which has been warmed to about 200 and then turned off.

It could be the blade...but as you mentioned not enough time to get one ordered in. You could try slowing the speed, ensure the blade tip is not more exposed than it should it as per Sandy's post, and try doing 2-3 passes instead of all in one pass. 

mausbon

@Liz_A
I have two types of paper a textured similar to Bazzell. However, I am also using a plain cardstock from Michaels. 

I am still trying and I am getting some cleaner cuts with the plain cardstock however they are not going through. 

Crazy_Mr_Zing

how sticky is your mat and is the stickiness all over if the material is not stuck down well corners or areas of the mat that are less sticky are often where the material will lift , up even more so if the material is tough to cut
a brayer helps ensure you material is cut well
a rolling pin will suffice

I found some material just don't cut well I learnt the hard way not to buy a huge supply before find out if it plays nice

One of the setting that users of less powerful machines like the cameo or cricut find a challenge to understand and master when they move to machine like the zing is blade exposure

This is a link to a video for setting the blade exposure

KNK Zing - Setting Blade Depth

Liz_A

@mausbon - make sure that you can get a clean cut by using the blade holder with blade in your hand, fold over a corner and when you can cut through without cutting the bit under the fold, you have the blade depth right. Now increase your pressure until you get a clean cut on the cutter.

mausbon

@Crazy_Mr_Zing
Thanks for your response. I have done all of the suggestions. I do understand when you talk about the blade exposure. I have done the folding paper, watched the video. I have to say at this point I really don't think that it is user error. I know there is a learning curve, but the inconsistency even with different paper makes me question. When I get a decent cut, I don't change any settings and cut again and get different cuts. You can see that with one of the pictures. 
@Liz_A
I did do that test and I am up to pressure 125! When I thought I could live with the test I tried cutting the ears again. You can see the top ear didn't even cut through and the bottom ear did with tearing.

I have been at this since 8 a.m this morning and it is now close to 4. It shouldn't  be this difficult. 

Di-lite

Looking at the images I am afraid it is the paper you have chosen.  It looks very like blotting paper and consequently gathers the moisture in the air very quickly and then refuses to cut nice.  Also slowing down your speed will assist but I think you are hard pressed.  One note for next time is only change one thing at a time.  Test to see if it improves or makes the situation worse. Keeping notes as you advance to get the perfect cut.  Getting the correct settings for this sort of material is notoriously difficult.  Black paper/cartridge is very tricky until you find the best paper/card for you.  Hope you get this resolved - I feel your frustration.

Liz_A

@mausbon - it could possibly be the blade. I believe you said you were using the red cap blade, do you have also a blue cap blade. It should be possible to adjust setting to get a great cut with the blue cap blade, given that your cuts are not overly detailed.

mausbon

@Di-lite
I thought it was the black paper in general (although I have tried 2 different kinds) but I tried a different paper and it didn't cut. I have tried the slower speeds but it really doesn't seem to help.
@Liz_A
I will try the blue blade. I agree with you that I was adjusting too many things not able to hone in. I have since started from scratch. I cleaned the mat and let it dry, watched the blade height videos again and read the manual. Right now I can get the donut to cut clean around, but it doesn't cut through. When I change the blade height it tears. When I go back and change the pressure it tears. So the best I can do is get a clean cut not going all the way through.

I have been racking my brain then I realized since I bought this machine for Christmas I have only been cutting vinyl which only needs the kiss cut. This is my first project with paper. 

I know there is a learning curve, but this is becoming a vertical line! I am so stubborn that I refuse to give up.

I will report back.

Thanks, you all are the best!

Liz_A

Don't adjust the blade tip height, try more pressure and more than one pass. This allows the blade to work it's way through the layers of paper more efficiently.

mausbon

@Liz_A
The blue blade worked! It only took 2 tries. See pixs
I used the 75 pressure 15 speed offset .30 for both cuts. However the first cut didn't cut out the donut hole. The second cut I used multi-cut 2 times, same settings. 

The ears need to be cut 3 times, and I have to try to unsticky the mat as the ears don't want to come up and unfortunately I need both sides. 

Any quick ideas for the unsticky? I am going to try the cotton flour towel again.

mausbon

Final Conclusion of what the issues were:
1. The red blade would not work, the blue blade did the job.
2. The paper is too fibrous. I rarely got the perfect cut, meaning that I just couldn't  lift off the paper and my designs stay on the mat consistency. I have never used pressure as I as below!
3. The paper would not clean cut in the same spot sort of in the center of the paper.

I think the combination of those things were the reasons I couldn't seem to get the cuts.

The final settings:
Mulit-cut 8 times!
.40 blade offset
Pressure 121 and speed 15

Not sure what I am going to do with the Silhouette that I ordered! I was so worried about my timeline that I ordered a used machine from Amazon. I think I will try it to see how the paper cuts on that machine as it was cutting on my old Silhouette before it jammed. Thank goodness Amazon has a great return policy. 

Thanks again for all your help. I hope this thread helps another ZO newbie.

Liz_A

@mausbon - thanks for the feedback, and glad you found a happy spot.

Where do you live? Do have high humidity? I live in Alberta which is similar to AZ, very dry, so I rarely have issues with paper absorbing moisture...but I have seen what humidity can do to the paper! Yikes!

What brand is the paper? To be truthful, I have always disliked Bazzill paper with a passion for cutting, I think it's terrible. For the same texture, I prefer an 80# cover stock Neenah linen paper...that cuts like butter. Here is a colour and product list info.

https://www.neenahpaper.com/pdf_eps_files/stocklistguides/Classic_Linen.pdf

Crazy_Mr_Zing

One thing I didn't see you mention (maybe i missed it)
was the height your mounting the blade holder 

Though it seems incredibly tough material needing 8 passes at such a pressure ?

Di-lite

Glad you got it resolved.  I had a vertical learning curve with the Force.  Like you I have a Silhouette Cameo which was child's play.  Still grit and not being willing to let a machine get the better of your is the best way to get to cutting consistently and accurately.  Hope you continue with your aspirations.  Well done.

mausbon

@Crazy_Mr_Zing
I was using the height of 15 post its as suggested in the manual.

@Di-lite
I was using Joann's textured cardstock at first. Then I switched to the Recollections from Michael's.

So my Cameo 3 arrived this morning and I was able to get a clean cut with the recommended cardstock settings on the first try no 8 passes.

Really? I was able to get the job done with hardly any hassles.

Maybe I should sell my ZO? Thoughts?

Crazy_Mr_Zing

I think if the material cut fine on the cameo then that rules out it being as problem material

Its rather puzzling as from your photos the part that does cut appear to be cut quite smoothly ? and as there seem to be no pattern to where the cut fails I can only think the the material is not adhered well to the mat in those areas
but I think your may have already quashed that theory

Crazy_Mr_Zing

If the blue blade cut ok but the red blade didn't maybe your red blade is damaged ?

SandyMcC

You definitely should not be needing 8 passes.  There's something amiss here. Is the Recollections cardstock 65 lb?  What does the packaging say?  If it's 65 lb, then you also shouldn't need such a high pressure.

SandyMcC

Also, I want you to compare your Silhouette blade exposure with the current ZO blade exposure. If you get a perfect cut with the Silhouette, then look at how much blade is sticking out.  You would need ~ the same amount on the ZO... not more and not less. It's whatever is needed to penetrate the material. 

mausbon

@SandyMcC

That's a great idea comparing the 2 blade heights. The cardstock is 65#. It was the weirdest thing with all of the passes. It would cut without the 8 passes but it wasn't like butter. Meaning that the cut will sort of sit on the mat unattached from the rest of the paper. That wouldn't happen until all of those passes.

@Crazy_Mr_Zing

I think that the blade was damaged for sure. As I really have not had the cleanest cuts. Since I have been mainly cutting vinyl, a kiss cut is all that is needed so I didn't need it to cut through.

SandyMcC

Make sure your material is always well pressed down to the mat. In some climates the mat isn't sticky enough to stabilize the material and you need to use a different adhesive. If there are any gaps between the cardstock and the adhesive, the cardstock won't cut in those places.  That's true with any cutter.  

Crazy_Mr_Zing

In some of the photos there seem to be quite a bit of debris on the mat
Places where the material is not stuck down well or les than other areas may not cut well or lift during the cut
Rinsing the mat under just water often will loosen this debris gentle rub those more stubborn areas with you finger
After the mat is dry if its no  longer even sticky you may need to add more adhesive
Gauging stickiness it quite subjective and material / pattern dependant
General I try and aim for a stickiness that if I gently press my spread finger/thumb  on the mat and then lift slowly the mat will follow but fall back down soon after

mausbon

Yes I thought about that when I posted this picture. So I literally started from scratch. I cleaned the mat, took out the blade, reinserted the blade and did the blade height test. I tried to remove anything that could possibly be the problem.

I still had problems, but I did not have the tearing as shown above. My problem became the cut not going through.

It wasn't until I changed to the blue blade that I was able to get an ok cut.

I don't think it was the paper either because it cut like butter on the Silhouette.

I am going to retry with the same blade height as Sandy suggested when I get a chance.

mausbon

I did what Sandy suggested and used the same blade height, or as closest to the naked eye I could get. This time I removed the 8 passes and was able to get a clean cut!

I can probably rule out the paper as I had just purchased it so there wasn't any humidity issues.

I think it was a combo of things and thus making it hard to pin point. I do know the blade was problem number one, and an over sticky mat. Since the mat was so sticky I wasn't braying the paper because the cut was sticking messing up one side and I needed both sides for my project. 

Anyway on to the next phase. I want to address the envelopes for the invites using Sharpie pens. 

SandyMcC

That's good news! I do want to emphasize again that Blade Height is what you set with the Post It notes and Blade Exposure, an entirely different setting, is what you were doing when comparing to the Cameo.  The former is the distance ABOVE the material. The latter is setting the blade to be equal to the thickness of the material. Does that make sense?

With the Sharpie pen, use at least 15 or 20 Post It notes so that there's no chance the tip of the pen will drag across the paper. Do some tests on scrap first. If you didn't buy the attachable tables, I recommend using a short box or stack or magazines/books or whatever to support the mat in the back so that it can't bow enough to cause the tip of the Sharpie to drag on the material.  Again, does this make sense?

mausbon

Thanks for the book tip. I don't have the table but have a rolling cart that ZO sits on. 

Crazy_Mr_Zing

When you cutting with the mat letting the mat just hang can cause the mat to bow up a little behind the pinch roller which can cause poor cutting results