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Provo Craft is at it again - lawsuit against SCAL

SBryanWSBryanW Administrator Posts: 5,293
edited March 2011 in General
I don't understand the business logic of the folks at Provo Craft. In addition to the lawsuit they brought against Make The Cut last year, they have recently filed a lawsuit against Craft Edge, Inc. and Brandon Kuroda (a.k.a. Todd) - the makers of Sure Cuts A Lot - for Copyright Infringement. I found the following information on the web about the lawsuit they filed. See this information here:
http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/copyright-lawsuits/california-northern-district-court/70108/provo-craft-and-novelty-inc-v-craft-edge-inc/summary/

Don't they realize that they have actually sold more cutting machines and products because of Make The Cut and Sure Cuts A Lot than they would have without them? They are punishing their users by trying to take away software that makes their machines so much more usable. It doesn't make sense to me.

Bryan
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Comments

  • CaseysAngelCaseysAngel Member Posts: 14,967
    They don't care Bry. They are just full of it and out to get people.

    They better grab fairy cut while they are at.

    Good grief. I'm glad I got a cougar and don't have to mess with the cricut crap.
    Christy http://everdaylittlethings.blogspot.com/ Cutters: Craft Robo, Cricut Expression, and the absolute BEST A BLACK CAT COUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • DeanaDeana Member Posts: 975
    they probably wont get very far cause these other programs are not infringing on their copywrites cause the software it totally diffrent than their, they will find out like microsoft did that they can not control the marketamericans wont stand for it.their sodtware is crap and mtc is awsome.
  • KimATCKimATC Member Posts: 785
    Wow, this surprises me, and it really shouldn't. It brings to mind the old saying cutting off your nose to spite your face. Whatever - their loss.
  • daffeydildaffeydil Member Posts: 3,007
    Didn't Sure Cuts a Lot have trouble with Provo Craft at another time...before the lawsuit PC filed against MTC?
    Good heavens, are these people trying to control everything related to paper crafting? Greedy bunch of people with very poor business practices.
    Sharon
  • grammyof6grammyof6 Member Posts: 883
    I wish someone would make a cutter like the cricut and have to work with whatever software you want to use. The price is what makes the cricut a big seller.
    Sue
  • CarmenOCarmenO Member Posts: 1,112
    What is there main gripe this time. Scal didn't make a backup program or anything different with there last update did they. Isn't this just the same old lawsuit again?
    Gazelle, Cameo
  • debzdebz Member Posts: 3,310
    For crying out loud. I wonder what the issue is. And will they bring it against MTC again?

    Someone should sue them for creating their software. Just because it sucks.
    Deb http://krapikreate.wordpress.com/ Cutting with 24" KNK Maxx, Silhouette SD, Expression, Cameo, and Zing Team KNK Designer
  • scrappinwithzscrappinwithz Member Posts: 2,717
    Some people just don't have good business sense and Provo is one of those!
    Z
    My blog: http://www.scrappinwithz.blogspot.com Zenita S.--Dexter, MO-- Cougar!!! affiliate for MTC affiliate for Lettering Delights
  • DeanaDeana Member Posts: 975
    the only reason i bought a second cricut is cause it was pretty pink and only 100 bucks and cant afford a better cutter cause i just spent 3000 on a 82 in 3d tv and all the stuff to go with it
  • DeanaDeana Member Posts: 975
    wow looks like i cant spell today
  • KraftheadKrafthead Member Posts: 320
    Wow! 8-|
    I Design For: BossKut, Practical Scrappers, Scraps of Color and Cutting Edge Magazine My Blog: http://mygazelleandme.blogspot.com and http://krafthead.blogspot.com/ In loving memory of James D 4/2-8/31/2012 I will always miss you daddy :(
  • artsie1artsie1 Member Posts: 1,451
    I am stuck with the E for now $$$ aren't there for the cougar. I don't understand when you buy a product you should have full control of how you use it. Doesn't make sense to me. If I buy shampoo can I not wash my rear or feet with it if I choose to do so or can they make me only wash my hair with it? Seems the same to me but who am I.
  • happy2bscrappinhappy2bscrappin Member Posts: 973
    I am stuck with the E for now $$$ aren't there for the cougar. I don't understand when you buy a product you should have full control of how you use it. Doesn't make sense to me. If I buy shampoo can I not wash my rear or feet with it if I choose to do so or can they make me only wash my hair with it? Seems the same to me but who am I.
    hahahahahahahahahahahaha I needed a good laugh. But oh soo true (no pun intended hehe)


  • karen3912karen3912 Banned Posts: 3,182
    I know several companies that are run by idiots. Yet they somehow keep their jobs.
  • pigtailpatpigtailpat Member Posts: 1,517
    PC is going to look like a fool, and right before the Cricut 2 comes out. I think this move by PC makes it look more certain that the expression 2 will not interface with any third party software. I could be wrong, but it seems that way to me with this new lawsuit interposed. However, remember that Todd is a former employee of PC, and the lawsuit may be based on other matters that we don't know about. Until I see the complaint, I can't guess.
    Cuts with Gazelle, PNC with silhouette.
  • JeannetteCJeannetteC Member Posts: 3,200
    I wonder if it isn't a scare tactic
    * scare potential buyers of MTC and SCAL from buying software
    and
    * intimidate the developers of MTC and SCAL from modifying their software to work with the newer machines PC comes out with. Let's face it, PC needs to be able to have an interface that talks to their machines and they you can plug into it, others can too!
    Jeannette C, Ontario, Canada http://houseofcards-jc.blogspot.com
  • HappyMommy2_4HappyMommy2_4 Member Posts: 139
    It could be a scare tactic...that wouldn't surprise me. I remember when they filed the suit against MTC...I was on the fence about buying it since I already had SCAL..but when I heard about the lawsuit I quickly bought my registration code. I figured if they did win at least I'd have this awesome program and there was nothing they could do about it :-) Thank goodness that didn't happen and MTC just keeps getting better.

    Since he used to work for PC, I wonder if maybe Todd knows some "secret" behind this new web based "Craft Room" and may be figuring out how to go around it. Who knows. I

    I wish PC would get a clue and start worrying about making their own crappy software work decent...and perhaps letting their own machines interface with each other. I hear the Imagine STILL doesn't work with the Gypsy and that was promised to work at launch in October!

    I'm sure that they are extremely embarrased that Andy and Todd both have software that is WAY better than anything PC has come up with to date. That is why they are trying to "scare" people away from buying it.

    Shelley
  • Angel135612Angel135612 Member Posts: 4,246
    PC is too busy creating new logos, and "clubs" to worry about products actually WORKING. They seem to be more concerned about anything else other than making their products work like they say they are supposed to. If they had improved CDS, I probably would have never bought MTC, but CDS was harder to use than it needed to be, and they never bothered to improve it.

    PC is their own worst enemy.
    Diane in Colorado Springs Proud Owner of a Silver Bullet Professional Series 24 inch cutter rated #1 by Top Ten Reivews http://die-cutting-machines-review.toptenreviews.com/ http://www.mycraftythoughts.blogspot.com/
  • iluvmysixiluvmysix Member Posts: 245
    After I bought my E (I didn't know anything called a cougar existed!) my hubby asked if he should invest in PC. The answer was "NOOOOOO!"
    Follow Me on Pinterest
  • nannato6_1nannato6_1 Member Posts: 356
    PC is owned by Bank of America, as an American tax payer I've already bailed them out once, I don't want anymore of my hard earned money going to them.
    My money WILL be going to Black Cat for a cougar!
    Diana from Illinois--Now in Florida!
  • VinylandVectorsVinylandVectors Member Posts: 4,344
    Could be a scare tactic... more than likely it is their attempt at advertising.... good or bad... it is advertising
  • neldanelda Moderator Posts: 11,637
    It could be a scare tactic...that wouldn't surprise me. I remember when they filed the suit against MTC...I was on the fence about buying it since I already had SCAL..but when I heard about the lawsuit I quickly bought my registration code. I figured if they did win at least I'd have this awesome program and there was nothing they could do about it :-) Thank goodness that didn't happen and MTC just keeps getting better.
    I think it is TOO funny that the scare tactic actually worked AGAINST PC! It scared you into buying not the opposite! Maybe this will do the same.

    I agree with most, if PC had put as much money and energy into making a worthwhile software product, they wouldn't need to do any of this. Why don't they put their money where it counts!

    And it irks me to no end that we bailed them out! Urghhh!! As a recipient of tax benefits they should be hindered from this type of activity.

    In Indy, blogging along at http://papercraftingwithnelda.blogspot.com/ Lettering Delights affiliate - order through here to give me credit! Cutters: using the the Silhouette SD almost exclusively these days!
  • sandyjsandyj Member Posts: 821
    So what was the resolution with the mtc lawsuit? I know the backup feature is gone, what else happened? Is it over?
    Just MY opinion, your milage will vary. Like "Andy" but with an "S"
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    Have not heard wheather it was settled or not but most likely not but Andy may be in a position that he can not say any thing as he has not been on since feb 24 it may be an indication that they are all still in courts.
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
  • CaseysAngelCaseysAngel Member Posts: 14,967
    PC is owned by Bank of America, as an American tax payer I've already bailed them out once, I don't want anymore of my hard earned money going to them.
    My money WILL be going to Black Cat for a cougar!
    LMBO I agree!!!!!!!!

    And everyone always gets nervous when Andy disappears but keep in mind he also has a wife who is in the early stages of pregnancy and he may be taking care of her and the little man

    Christy http://everdaylittlethings.blogspot.com/ Cutters: Craft Robo, Cricut Expression, and the absolute BEST A BLACK CAT COUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Jody_MJody_M Member Posts: 335
    edited March 2011
    I don't understand PC at all! I have to agree, the people that run the company are idiots & have no business sense. They are just cutting their own throats, they don't realize that they would be so much better off working with Andy & Todd than against them! If they actually listened to what their customer base wanted, worked with Andy & Todd & made the expression 2 by those guidelines I'm sure lots of us would want to upgrade. As it is, it would be a cold day in h_e_double_toothpicks before I would.

    edited for typos
    Jody :-) Jody_M Designs http://jodymdesigns.com
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    I don't understand PC at all! I have to agree, the people that run the company are idiots & have no business sense. They are just cutting their own throats, they don't realize that they would be so much better off working with Andy & Todd than against them! If they actually listened to what their customer base wanted, worked with Andy & Todd & made the expression 2 by those guidelines I'm sure lots of us would want to upgrade. As it is, it would be a cold day in h_e_double_toothpicks before I would.

    edited for typos
    it would be awesome if they could play nice and yes I am sure they have sold alot of machines because people saw they could do more with these programs,
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
  • pigtailpatpigtailpat Member Posts: 1,517
    I have heard from Andy as recently as today, and he is OK, and yes he CAN'T comment.

    Pat

    >>>Have not heard wheather it was settled or not but most likely not but Andy may be in a position that he can not say any thing as he has not been on since feb 24 it may be an indication that they are all still in courts. [from Rach's post]<<<<<<<<<
    Cuts with Gazelle, PNC with silhouette.
  • debzdebz Member Posts: 3,310
    I have heard from Andy as recently as today, and he is OK, and yes he CAN'T comment.

    Pat

    >>>Have not heard wheather it was settled or not but most likely not but Andy may be in a position that he can not say any thing as he has not been on since feb 24 it may be an indication that they are all still in courts. [from Rach's post]<<<<<<<<<</p>
    Bummer. I hope it all goes in his favor and PC is forced to pay HIM.

    If the PC trolls are reading this...

    well, then,

    Dear PC,

    you suck.



    Deb http://krapikreate.wordpress.com/ Cutting with 24" KNK Maxx, Silhouette SD, Expression, Cameo, and Zing Team KNK Designer
  • SherriSherri Member Posts: 736
    After the run Andy has had this year and with a family and a new baby on the way he needs a break..the entire family does! Good for him if he is taking it! :-) The constant pounding is exciting at first but man after a bit you REALLY need a break...just ask Dawn and I...LOL
    Sherri Jensen Black Cat USA Distributor http://thatsscrapinc.com/
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    here is a link to what the court douments says , this was posted by another member of the Scal forum thought it many here would like to know what it says.


    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7OJ0FaKExhLYTE5ZGRkYmEtNmQ2MC00NTlhLWJjMTgtMzUzNjE0NjdhODJi&hl=en
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
  • CaseysAngelCaseysAngel Member Posts: 14,967
    I didn't dare read all that but what parts I did sure did sound familiar!!!!!!! They need to give it a rest, SERIOUSLY!!!!!!
    Christy http://everdaylittlethings.blogspot.com/ Cutters: Craft Robo, Cricut Expression, and the absolute BEST A BLACK CAT COUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    I didn't dare read all that but what parts I did sure did sound familiar!!!!!!! They need to give it a rest, SERIOUSLY!!!!!!
    i know is did sound almost exactly like the other suit they brought only changing a few things.
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
  • grandmamichelfgrandmamichelf Member Posts: 372
    Well now what? This is just ridiculous. PC is just ridiculous. I might just go to some other machine. I was looking at purchasing the Expression because they would be going on sale and now I'm thinking I'll give on these stupid things for good. Really ridiculous!
    I always feel like somebody's watching me. Is it YOU?
  • CaseysAngelCaseysAngel Member Posts: 14,967
    someone better call and warn microsoft. They will be getting sued for their snipping tool next.
    Christy http://everdaylittlethings.blogspot.com/ Cutters: Craft Robo, Cricut Expression, and the absolute BEST A BLACK CAT COUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    someone better call and warn microsoft. They will be getting sued for their snipping tool next.
    LMBO
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
  • JeannetteCJeannetteC Member Posts: 3,200
    I'm glad I switched to a Gazelle for more reasons than one!

    The lawsuit claims damages due to the software (ie, implied loss of sales of cartridges), but really, I suspect there are a lot of the sales of their machines that can be attributed to the software(both SCAL and MTC). How many people had a baby cricut and after dusting it off and using it more with the software, decided to upgrade to an expression?
    Jeannette C, Ontario, Canada http://houseofcards-jc.blogspot.com
  • JeannetteCJeannetteC Member Posts: 3,200
    LOL Christy!
    Jeannette C, Ontario, Canada http://houseofcards-jc.blogspot.com
  • neldanelda Moderator Posts: 11,637
    Thanks for the link, Rachellann. I read through all of it. The first count seems to be the most involved and most serious - is SCAL allowing them to use the cartridge images? That's what they make it sound like, that he was somehow able to make the images or content available?

    I understand that they have the image as a trademark, but "CRICUT"? (Notice that it is in all caps, so I guess it is OK to use "cricut"?) So from now on, all lower case for me, hey I may just be talking about a bug! That I want to step on. lol!
    In Indy, blogging along at http://papercraftingwithnelda.blogspot.com/ Lettering Delights affiliate - order through here to give me credit! Cutters: using the the Silhouette SD almost exclusively these days!
  • iggyloveriggylover Moderator Posts: 11,513
    Hah! Parasitical program and irrepairable loss of income? What a load of hooey!

    image

    image
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke Jeanette in Orange County, CA Love my Italian Greyhound --> I.G.--> iggy Own a Create: Krikee, getting used to a Black Cat Cougar: Bagheera
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    edited March 2011
    Thanks for the link, Rachellann. I read through all of it. The first count seems to be the most involved and most serious - is SCAL allowing them to use the cartridge images? That's what they make it sound like, that he was somehow able to make the images or content available?

    I understand that they have the image as a trademark, but "CRICUT"? (Notice that it is in all caps, so I guess it is OK to use "cricut"?) So from now on, all lower case for me, hey I may just be talking about a bug! That I want to step on. lol!
    yep Nelda one big green ugly bug
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
  • debzdebz Member Posts: 3,310
    So... SCAL has caused PC to lose money towards their cric** (better not use the full name or risk trademark infringement) and their design studio? Uh... PC has lost money because design studio is (insert bad word here).

    I didn't know there was a competitive law out there that someone can't "willfully" compete with a company. So...MTC and SCAL could sue each other for competing against each other?

    It sounds to me like PC's issue (one of many) is that SCAL requires the cartridge in order to run the machine (same as MTC). I don't know because I don't understand some of the lawyer-speak in the document.

    Completely off topic...why is SCAL's owner referred to as Todd, when his name is Brandon in the suit? Just curious.

    Does SCAL only work with the Expression?

    HP, Epson, and Canon better sue Microsoft for creating drivers to run their printers and scanners. Might as well sue Steve Jobs while they're at it, cause there are drivers in Leopard to run their different equipment. Just sayin'

    Deb http://krapikreate.wordpress.com/ Cutting with 24" KNK Maxx, Silhouette SD, Expression, Cameo, and Zing Team KNK Designer
  • debzdebz Member Posts: 3,310
    Hah! Parasitical program and irrepairable loss of income? What a load of hooey!

    image

    image
    THIS.

    Made me laugh.
    Deb http://krapikreate.wordpress.com/ Cutting with 24" KNK Maxx, Silhouette SD, Expression, Cameo, and Zing Team KNK Designer
  • iggyloveriggylover Moderator Posts: 11,513
    I didn't create the original files...but I saved them when our wonderful creators on this site made them. :p
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke Jeanette in Orange County, CA Love my Italian Greyhound --> I.G.--> iggy Own a Create: Krikee, getting used to a Black Cat Cougar: Bagheera
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    edited March 2011
    So... SCAL has caused PC to lose money towards their cric** (better not use the full name or risk trademark infringement) and their design studio? Uh... PC has lost money because design studio is (insert bad word here).

    I didn't know there was a competitive law out there that someone can't "willfully" compete with a company. So...MTC and SCAL could sue each other for competing against each other?

    It sounds to me like PC's issue (one of many) is that SCAL requires the cartridge in order to run the machine (same as MTC). I don't know because I don't understand some of the lawyer-speak in the document.

    Completely off topic...why is SCAL's owner referred to as Todd, when his name is Brandon in the suit? Just curious.

    Does SCAL only work with the Expression?

    HP, Epson, and Canon better sue Microsoft for creating drivers to run their printers and scanners. Might as well sue Steve Jobs while they're at it, cause there are drivers in Leopard to run their different equipment. Just sayin'

    funny PC ! because Well I can make a fake george cart and have MY MACHINE run on MY CART. LOL they did not make it. LOL I did so it is MY CART. LOL and I can use MY MACHINE and MY CART any way I PLEASE. Oh and by the way I MUCH prefer the COUGAR
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
  • CaseysAngelCaseysAngel Member Posts: 14,967
    Hah! Parasitical program and irrepairable loss of income? What a load of hooey!

    image

    image
    THIS.

    Made me laugh.
    I do believe that is my bug file isn't it iggy? I made it when they sued mtc.LMBO
    Christy http://everdaylittlethings.blogspot.com/ Cutters: Craft Robo, Cricut Expression, and the absolute BEST A BLACK CAT COUGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • daffeydildaffeydil Member Posts: 3,007
    This all just makes me physically ill! What a sue-happy, greedy world we live in.
    I am praying this all comes out ok for Todd . I hope Andy is coming through his ordeal with this stupid company ok, too.
    Sharon
  • reallyreneereallyrenee Member Posts: 25
    Promothemselvescraft isn't making any friends with this action. They don't look a the bigger picture at all. The craft robo, gazelle, cougar all allow mtc and scal. Why don't the companies making these machines go main stream (ie Michaels, JoAnns, Hobby Lobby) ? Promothemselvescraft's business model of carts only would become a non issue.
  • neldanelda Moderator Posts: 11,637
    I think the advantage the PC has is that their machines do cost less initially (in most cases) and do not need to be connected to a computer. So for a beginning scrapper, they are less costly to get started (not counting the cost of carts of course!)

    But of course you do need carts and then more carts and more (carts are where PC makes their money). And by then you are so invested in their products that is is hard to decide to invest even more money in another system like craft robo, gazelle, cougar, etc. At that point it is easier for most to stay with the PC system.

    I am thankful for MTC and the creativity that it gives me with the CE and also other machines. I probably would not have started with a GZ or cougar - too rich to start with. I can remember bidding for the CE on ebay (machine, 2 carts, and CDS) and worrying about the cost at $235! I don't think I would have been able to even consider $425 (gz) or $730 (cougar) at that time!

    MTC opens the door to so much more than the limitations of PC products, not just in graphics but also with different machines.
    In Indy, blogging along at http://papercraftingwithnelda.blogspot.com/ Lettering Delights affiliate - order through here to give me credit! Cutters: using the the Silhouette SD almost exclusively these days!
  • rachellann_ID714rachellann_ID714 Banned Posts: 10,251
    I think the advantage the PC has is that their machines do cost less initially (in most cases) and do not need to be connected to a computer. So for a beginning scrapper, they are less costly to get started (not counting the cost of carts of course!)

    But of course you do need carts and then more carts and more (carts are where PC makes their money). And by then you are so invested in their products that is is hard to decide to invest even more money in another system like craft robo, gazelle, cougar, etc. At that point it is easier for most to stay with the PC system.

    I am thankful for MTC and the creativity that it gives me with the CE and also other machines. I probably would not have started with a GZ or cougar - too rich to start with. I can remember bidding for the CE on ebay (machine, 2 carts, and CDS) and worrying about the cost at $235! I don't think I would have been able to even consider $425 (gz) or $730 (cougar) at that time!

    MTC opens the door to so much more than the limitations of PC products, not just in graphics but also with different machines.
    Hi Nelda yep their machines do cost less but they also last no where near as long , as for not needing connected to the computer either but did you know that some of the cougars don't need to be connected to the Computers either the is a port on some for a usb stick to be inserted and on that you usb stick you put plt files that you make and you can cut directly from that many of the newer ones dont have this option I don't think but i will have to check as i think it was going to be opted out because most don't take their cougars to crops that i know of but as i was saying the usb stick inserted to the machine and the you go to the onbord screen and scroll til you find your file you want to cut. several of our Cougar owner do not know this because of the fact they just hook the machine straight to the computer. so every now and then i will make a file in MTC export it to a roland printer diver and save as a plt for that just incase day.
    imageimageimage Rachellann uses the Black Cat Cougar, Gazelle, Expression, and 34 inch MH871 vinyl cutter http://www.thymegraphics.co.uk/index.asp http://www.thatsscrapinc.com/ My Blog is: http://rachellsmanycrafts.blogspot.com/
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