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Zing Orbit or KNK Force?

mauimommamauimomma Member Posts: 50
My Zing TOM pooped out on me and stopped cutting. I attempted to replace the part that was malfunctioning but it made it worse. I was told that I could ship it for fixing; however, i'm worried that the cost to ship and fix would be too much given I'll be shipping from Hawaii. I'm looking at just upgrading and I'm torn between the KNK Force or the Zing Orbit. I'd love to hear from others about thoughts between the two machines. I'll mostly be cutting vinyl but planning to do engravings on metal and wood as well. TIA for all the help and info!
~Cheryl MTC newbie with a Zing!

Comments

  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,307
    To replace the motherboard and cable on mine was about $200 with the shipping. It cost at the time only $25 to ship - although I would expect that shipping might be up. The zing orbit and the force cost a lot more. I own a force and the original zing but not the orbit. It really depends what you want to use it for and how deep your wallet. If you want to cut really wide material and write on cylindrical objects I would look at the 24 inch orbit. If you want to emboss cardstock or  cut thin wood or acrylic I would go for the force. If you want to save money and still have a very good cutter, or a backup cutter that works directly with MTC, I would fix your present zing. Neither the force or orbit cuts has a plugin for MTC.
  • Liz_ALiz_A Member Posts: 9,287
    @mauimomma - there are some differences that are significant between the two machines:

    - the Orbit uses an optic eye for print and cut registration mark identification. This is similar to how some other brand cutters work, example the Silhouette cutters. The Force uses a camera for this process.
    - the Orbit can do finer/detailed cuts more accurately, you'll need to read up on this
    - The Force has dual heads, so you can use pens and then cut all in one task rather than separately
    - The Force has way more pressure for cutting
    - The Force has the ability to use a larger variety of tools, and currently has a rotary tool available for it
    - The Orbit is promised to have a special tool for cutting, drawing on shapes, eg egg, read up on that (delivery sometime in the future)
    - Force has it's own separate cutting software, you can use other programs for designing and exporting that may already be familiar with
    - Orbit requires purchasing SCAL for cutting, and designing if you don't have other software you use
    - both are sort of incomplete projects, there are some software issues outstanding, do read up on these to be an aware consumer
    - both cutters have Facebook pages and lots of users that can offer information and support, and of course, Sandy and Darrell are available for help most of the time =)

    Sandy's Force Review: https://personaldiecutting.com/reviews/knk-force-review/

    see this page also for more comparisons, reviews: http://www.iloveknk.com/knk-info/knk-comparisons/


  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,307
    @Liz_A I was not aware that the orbit could cut finer than the force. I have been able to cut even more fine - almost hair thin on the force versus my original zing. Can the orbit do better indeed?
  • Liz_ALiz_A Member Posts: 9,287
    @leslie6111 - when Chad shared a photo of a cut by the Orbit, he cut the logo in vinyl with the TM. Sandy said it was this ridiculously little text, but it cut so well because the Orbit cuts at a higher resolution, is my understanding. So it should cut more detailed stuff better. The info was posted on one of the FB groups.
  • SandyMcCSandyMcC Member Posts: 6,935
    I want to clarify the software issue.  The ZIng Orbit CAN cut from MTC using the Zing Air plugin. However:

    (1)  you will be required to connect using the USB cable versus having the option to connected via Wi-Fi.

    (2) you won't be able to perform print and cut applications since there's no Zing pluging for MTC that utilizes an optic eye.

    (3) you won't be able to use the new orbitizer when it is released later this year.

    Here is the photo that Chad shared showing the Zing Orbit's ability to cut extremely small lettering. The letters "TM" below are only 0.06" in height.  Now this doesn't mean that ALL fonts can be cut at this height. It was just a "first time experience" for Chad who has been involved in vinyl cutting for the past 27 years. 



    Sandy McCauley
    Cutting with KNK Force, Maxx Air, Zing Air
    Need help with your KNK? Visit this link: http://knkusa.com/contact/
    KNK / MTC Videos: http://bit.ly/1kmAcoO
    Latest KNK / MTC User Manuals: http://www.iloveknk.com/Support/user-manuals/
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,307
    @SandyMcC , then Chad could not cut this same logo on the force? I know I have cut thinner. Just trying to decide whether I too should replace my zing with the orbit as well. It is still a perfectly fine cutter and can actually cut material that the force doesn't handle well.
  • SandyMcCSandyMcC Member Posts: 6,935
    @leslie6111 : It's the "TM" that can't be cut. The rest of the logo should cut just fine on the original Zing. Pull out a dime and look at the words "ONE DIME" on the back. Then note that the letters "TM", but by they Orbit in the logo above, are smaller than that! 
    Sandy McCauley
    Cutting with KNK Force, Maxx Air, Zing Air
    Need help with your KNK? Visit this link: http://knkusa.com/contact/
    KNK / MTC Videos: http://bit.ly/1kmAcoO
    Latest KNK / MTC User Manuals: http://www.iloveknk.com/Support/user-manuals/
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,307
    @SandyMcC just really asking if the force can cut as fine as the orbit is all. If it can do better than I might have to change my santa list. Right now I have the zing as my backup cutter. If the orbit is even better than the force then that is worth considering esp with the egg bot attachment.
  • SandyMcCSandyMcC Member Posts: 6,935
    The factory says it is, however, I've not had the time to do any side-by-side testing to compare them.  I guess my attitude is that since they both have improved cutting of small detail I have to wonder how often will you need to cut even tinier detail than what the Force can handle and is it significant enough to make a big difference.  If you have any particular file that you've cut on the Force and you feel that it was NOT as accurate as what you'd like, then I'll happily cut the same on the ZO. Also note that these tiny little shapes, like the TM can only be cut from vinyl anyhow. Since you're mostly a paper crafter, like I am, this doesn't really apply to our typical materials and projects.  Does that make sense? 
    Sandy McCauley
    Cutting with KNK Force, Maxx Air, Zing Air
    Need help with your KNK? Visit this link: http://knkusa.com/contact/
    KNK / MTC Videos: http://bit.ly/1kmAcoO
    Latest KNK / MTC User Manuals: http://www.iloveknk.com/Support/user-manuals/
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,307
    edited June 5
    Thanks @SandyMcC - you are right, I cut very little vinyl.  I was a little confused by the precision comment. I guess I will wait still until I see how the egg bot thingy will work for people to decide. Since that is the only draw for me as well as possibly getting a 24 inch model. I expect like the force, by then others will want to rehome their orbits since there is already one listed and I might find a bargain out there. I think I have taken the force to as thin as any drag blade cutter can go with card stock. I know it can cut thinner than with my original zing. Some of my cuts have even plasticized the cardstock I use (they feel like plastic instead of paper after cut). You can only go so thin on a sticky mat. I did this on the force. The frame over the water color is cut from one piece of black cardstock and glued down. I will email you the file if you want to see if the orbit can at least do as well. If it can go even thinner than it can truly mimic hand cutting.
  • SandyMcCSandyMcC Member Posts: 6,935
    I'm certainly blown away by how thin those cuts are! And the POST OFFICE lettering looks really good, too!  
    Sandy McCauley
    Cutting with KNK Force, Maxx Air, Zing Air
    Need help with your KNK? Visit this link: http://knkusa.com/contact/
    KNK / MTC Videos: http://bit.ly/1kmAcoO
    Latest KNK / MTC User Manuals: http://www.iloveknk.com/Support/user-manuals/
  • Liz_ALiz_A Member Posts: 9,287
    @leslie6111 - that is pretty thin and detailed, the "thanks" looks super!
  • debbiecaseydebbiecasey Member Posts: 391
    love the pic the way you have done it. I have been to tossing up which one to get the force or the orbit. like the 24 inch wide but now like how you can emboss card stock with the force. the only thing is learning a new program.what is the what is the widest you can get in the force or does it only come in one width.
  • mauimommamauimomma Member Posts: 50
    Thanks for the input everyone! I am leaning more towards the force. I work mostly with vinyl and paper; however, I want to do more engraving. Does anyone know if the orbit will be able to engrave as well as  the force?

    @leslie6111 thanks for the pic! Those thin cuts look great!
    @SandyMcC the "TM" cut is awesome as well!
    @Liz_A Thanks for the inf@Liz_A

    Being able to cut on shapes with the orbit sounds intriguing; however, I'm needing the cutter in the next few weeks to start on projects and I'm not sure how often I'd need to cut on shapes.

    Thanks for the input everyone!


    ~Cheryl MTC newbie with a Zing!
  • SandyMcCSandyMcC Member Posts: 6,935
    what is the what is the widest you can get in the force or does it only come in one width.
     The Force is currently only offered in 15". 
    Sandy McCauley
    Cutting with KNK Force, Maxx Air, Zing Air
    Need help with your KNK? Visit this link: http://knkusa.com/contact/
    KNK / MTC Videos: http://bit.ly/1kmAcoO
    Latest KNK / MTC User Manuals: http://www.iloveknk.com/Support/user-manuals/
  • SandyMcCSandyMcC Member Posts: 6,935
    mauimomma said:
    Thanks for the input everyone! I am leaning more towards the force. I work mostly with vinyl and paper; however, I want to do more engraving. Does anyone know if the orbit will be able to engrave as well as  the force?



    The Orbit can do scratch engraving, just like the Force does using the same engraving tool. For rotary engraving, you would need the Force and the Force rotary tool. 

    The Orbit's future Orbitizer would also offer the ability to engraving on bottles and other cylindrical objects, which will not be something the Force can do.
    Sandy McCauley
    Cutting with KNK Force, Maxx Air, Zing Air
    Need help with your KNK? Visit this link: http://knkusa.com/contact/
    KNK / MTC Videos: http://bit.ly/1kmAcoO
    Latest KNK / MTC User Manuals: http://www.iloveknk.com/Support/user-manuals/
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,307
    edited June 6


    This is how good the force can emboss. This was done in 2 passes on coordinates card stock and no embossing pad - since the force has 2 heads I embossed a nested duplicated heart and then cut the tree of life frame for my card in the same svg. I already emailed Sandy the Beatrix Potter frame to see how the orbit does. I also am thinking about replacing my original zing with the orbit. I only really use one cutter at a time although I find that a luxury of having a back up cutter is something I can afford. My zing is still good for cutting soft materials (vinyl remnants) - which is something that the force struggle with, so that would be another question I would have about the orbit - if it can do as well. And my zing has been hardly used since I replaced the cable and motherboard. The other question floating in my mind is that the orbit has an optic eye and not laser for pnc - I thought there was all this talk about the laser being better - esp for dim light. Why now is this such a plus and not a downgrade?
  • debbiecaseydebbiecasey Member Posts: 391
    :/ Thanks @SandyMcC pity the force didn't come in a wider version like the orbit will have to have a good think which one to get but 15inch not to bad
  • mauimommamauimomma Member Posts: 50
    SandyMcC said:
    The Orbit can do scratch engraving, just like the Force does using the same engraving tool. For rotary engraving, you would need the Force and the Force rotary tool. 

    The Orbit's future Orbitizer would also offer the ability to engraving on bottles and other cylindrical objects, which will not be something the Force can do.
    Okay, now this changes things again. :s
    ~Cheryl MTC newbie with a Zing!
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