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Stuck (AGAIN) on a 180 Popup

I thought I could make two halves and glue them together.  I did remember about the zero plane but I took it back out because I want the cake to stand all by itself, with no glue tabs showing, and two sides of the fairy would be glued together in the center of the cake.   I am sorry to say I cannot figure this out.  I hope someone didn't tell me how and I forgot already....
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Comments

  • PennyPenny Member Posts: 2,029
    @susanBluerobot ;  Hopefully Susan can help you with this. She has done some videos for PCS.
    Penny in Albuquerque, NM "Not all those who wander are lost." - R.R. Tolkien
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,344
    My feelings are hurt @Penny. :'( Bev did you want this as a 180 or 2 90's stuck together. Did you want to create it in PCS as a 180 or take it into MTC and rotate and mirror the angel on top? It is possible to do all those things, but if you make it as a 180 in pcs then it will be smaller cause most people do not cut that large a cardstock.
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,344
    edited February 8
    I didn't want to reproduce the whole cake for you. First off you didn't have the angel cropped  on top. I also didn't want to fiddle with the dimensions so I made the 180 card longer in global operations so that you can have the idea how to do this within the program. You have to make the angel fit to the top of the card - cropped slightly. Take the pen and draw a auto quad rectangle at the front back zero plane. Boolean join exclude with the angel - shape at that plane. Copy what you get Then paste it on the rear back plane. Mirror and send to bottom. Build the rest of your cake there while you are at it. You will still have to fix some lines that are fold by default ans should be cut - you can do this in or out of MTC. If you do it in pcs if you draw a line slightly skewed.
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,344
    If you wanted to keep it as 2 90 degree popups and then glue them together, you would have to draw some tabs manually so the card would cut out.
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,344
    The last way is to do this in MTC. Take what you have and export as svg. Import the svg into MTC. Copy it, paste in place and rotate mirror the "copy" and line up at the midpoint of your virtual mat so that the faeries meet at their heads. Draw taps so that you can glue them together.
  • CharoCharo Member Posts: 590
    @leslie6111 Thanks so much.  I DID forget something I knew a while back....well kind of.  Really I never understood the zero plane when I was making Susan's gazebo card.  Thought about it all night, got up and re-watched one of Susan's videos.  And I surely did forget why most folks don't do 180's in PCS.  OK thanks to your help I can do this!
    Member 30818
  • PennyPenny Member Posts: 2,029
    My feelings are hurt @Penny. :'( Bev did you want this as a 180 or 2 90's stuck together. Did you want to create it in PCS as a 180 or take it into MTC and rotate and mirror the angel on top? It is possible to do all those things, but if you make it as a 180 in pcs then it will be smaller cause most people do not cut that large a cardstock.

    I'm sorry @leslie6111. I thought Susan had done some videos on the 180 card - didn't remember that you have worked with the 180s. Glad you could help her. I have one made a few cards in PCS but no 180s.
    Penny in Albuquerque, NM "Not all those who wander are lost." - R.R. Tolkien
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,344
    edited February 8
    Although, Susan is the number one expert in everything pcs since she was asked to beta test the program,  I think only Bryan has videoed using the 180 side of PCS. I try to help where I can since I have used the program a lot when it was first introduced to the rest of us and have done many 180 popup cards, where as Susan favors gluing 2 90's together because of the constraints of doing a 180 being the card size, I do not mind making my cards smaller to compensate. 
  • Crazy_Mr_ZingCrazy_Mr_Zing Member Posts: 2,805
    edited February 9
    I was thinking you were wanting  to make to a 90deg card and glue the two back to back
    the second having the pattern reversed
    so there's is no hinge point on the top edge of the card
    Though i did wonder why the top of the heart is cropped

    so i went about trying to do it and it would work for me
    add the the 0 plane rectangle and moved it the the lowest z position boolean join difference


    thought i must have forgot something so tinkered some more and I don;t know if it was me doing something wrong but found that the fairy needs to be aligned to  one of the edges of the 0 plane rectangle

    much like an anchor the aligning edge needs to be crops flat

     

    I thought well i could add a little tag and cut it off later in MTC

       



    so then I thought you could you could reduce you card height
    so change to horizontal plane and moved it to the top of the heart position 
     4.39063" was displayed on the tool bar

    so global operations and reduced the card height to 4.39063 added the the 0 plane rectangle and moved it the the lowest z position boolean join difference
    and the works
     
      

    then i thiugh should work the other way 

    extend the fairy's plinth down to the bottom plane


     

    So the fairy shape would be this


    Then I restored the curved to the top the heart in MTC and replaced the fairy


     



    And just because I'm crazy I backtracked to before the boolean join and extended all those glue tabs to the bottom plane

    so without the cake they would look like this




    then join them to the fairy shape and then did the boolean join





    I had to create a 1/128" gap here to prevent the glue flap welding to the plinth with i joined the fairy and the glue tabs







    @leslie6111 ; Maybe I'm confused with another program is it possible it PCS to do math in the dimension boxes eg if you wanted to reduce the W by 0.1" can you somehow type in - 0.1

    Using % works eg you can decease or increase in size eg 99% in w reduces w by 1%
    you also can alter the x and y positions eg 101% in X moves the shape %1 of that X value
    Post edited by Crazy_Mr_Zing on
    I Use Zing Air, Make The Cut - Pop Card Studio, WinXP- Win7 -Win10
    Paper Modellers I Revere Marc Hagan-Guirey ----- Yoshinobu Miyamoto ----- Peter Dahmen
    Gallery ID #26944 ----- Link to My Cloud Have a Look your Welcome to Make Use of the Files
  • leslie6111leslie6111 Member Posts: 2,344
    edited February 9
    I guess you are right, but at at midnight when I answered Bev last night ( she is 2 time zones behind me) I wasn't go to do any math and my program in global  operations part where you have to make the changes  was acting up on my computer.  I just wanted to show Bev how the program works and left her to redo her card if that is what she intended. The issue in doing it with the 180 side of the program is that normally we can only buy 12 x 12 card stock here in the USA, so the cards that result are 3 inches high - that is what you are left with if you do not want to cut your card into 2, 90 popup anyway . (Which is what Susan demonstrates in most of her videos) I did the 90 degree tab card too (if you look at the earlier post, you'll see it, but didn't go into doing it the third way - manually in MTC, cause it was way late by then, I just posted about that being the third method to make a 90 degree popup card into a 180 popup card.

    So, when using the 180 side of the program -  I kind of moved her cake pieces over having 2 windows open - her 90 and a 180 card base, - and added a few anchor points so that she would get the idea. Then I sized the fairy accordingly and slightly cropped the top of the heart. I also had to crop the base cause when I sized it down, the base was no longer a straight line. 

    To do this card with the 180 part of PCS, You would have to have the top - which is Bev's Faerie's heart end, at the top of the front back plane which is where the card folds. Then to trick the program to have the proper fold lines drawn you then have to draw with the pen tool set to auto quad a rectangle that covers the whole front back plane. Select all - which in this case is the faerie and the rectangle and do a boolean exclusion. From there you copy a mirror the back front to the back rear and then copy over all the other parts of the cake copying and mirroring as you go.

    To finish the card since there is still a bug in it, you also have to manually draw over some of the fold lines that at a slight skew to change them to cut lines at the base of the cake so that the left over card stock can be cut away or else change those line in MTC. THe skew is necesary cause fold is dominate to cut in the program.
    Post edited by leslie6111 on
  • Crazy_Mr_ZingCrazy_Mr_Zing Member Posts: 2,805
    edited February 9
    @leslie6111 I was Not inferring your way was wrong or my way was better I just thought I'd share my adventure and my little detour into crazy town at the end

    I don't use the 180 side or the program either due to the issues you mentioned
    the size and the bugs

    I was actually a Question I asking about the entering the math in boxes
    I though you Know ?

    as I found it rather difficult to crop 1/128" so I figured altering the dimensions easier with a calculator as my brain don't do math anytime

    Rather a pointless question now I Think about it because I have now Idea what the decimal equivalent of 1/128" Is or any other inch fraction ?

    after doing all that figured out 1 click on the dimension adjustment arrows appears to be 0.01"
    and I now think It maybe AI that allows you to enter Math into the dimension boxes
    Post edited by Crazy_Mr_Zing on
    I Use Zing Air, Make The Cut - Pop Card Studio, WinXP- Win7 -Win10
    Paper Modellers I Revere Marc Hagan-Guirey ----- Yoshinobu Miyamoto ----- Peter Dahmen
    Gallery ID #26944 ----- Link to My Cloud Have a Look your Welcome to Make Use of the Files
  • CharoCharo Member Posts: 590
    Wow @Crazy_Mr_Zing and Wow @leslie6111 too!  I got my card done but did nowhere near all the work you did.  I just hand-cut the fold lines at the top that needed to be cut lines, added a tab to the head and heart at top, and glued them and tips of candles together (tips of candles were a glue-on in metallic which was why they wren't in PCS).  So far the two pieces look OK when glued together, haven't got them attached to a card base yet.  I would say mine doesn't look nearly as clean as @Crazy_Mr_Zing's does but this card wore me out.
    Hmmm.  After typing the above I looked again at @Crazy_Mr_Zing's results.  It really is nice and it's another good lesson on what boolean join can do.  Eventually I want to go fix my file like yours.
    Member 30818
  • CharoCharo Member Posts: 590
    This was REALLY HARD!  I am sure I did it the most difficult way possible...ended up drawing the zero plane in MTC, then copying it to PCS.  I forgot a fold line at bottom of fairy and other things necessitated a whole lot of node editing.  Don't think my shapes file is going to work for texturing...too much editing.  Wow.
    Member 30818
  • Crazy_Mr_ZingCrazy_Mr_Zing Member Posts: 2,805
    edited February 10
    Did you have you snapping set to 1/8" That make it easier to get the dotted lines to indicate the the 0 plane rectangle is the full size and snapped to the edges

    Not sure I understand this part "Don't think my shapes file is going to work for texturing...too much editing"
    Post edited by Crazy_Mr_Zing on
    I Use Zing Air, Make The Cut - Pop Card Studio, WinXP- Win7 -Win10
    Paper Modellers I Revere Marc Hagan-Guirey ----- Yoshinobu Miyamoto ----- Peter Dahmen
    Gallery ID #26944 ----- Link to My Cloud Have a Look your Welcome to Make Use of the Files
  • CharoCharo Member Posts: 590
    @Crazy_Mr_Zing Didn't realize 1/8" helped with dotted lines on 0 plane.  Did get the plane rectangle to full size.  There was so much node editing needed I'd have to do the same thing to the shape file before adding textures for PNC.  Last night I got the two pieces glued together and guess what:  I don't like it!  The cake is oval instead of round, the anchor shapes evidently need to be thinner as the curvy cuts between them aren't cutting well, and worst of all the fairy is much too heavy to stand on it's own.  Re-thinking this entire thing....might have to do a slice form cake instead.  BUT I sure did learn some things about the 0 plane.
    Member 30818
  • Crazy_Mr_ZingCrazy_Mr_Zing Member Posts: 2,805
    edited March 19
    I came across a sneaky way of making the fairy shape work the way it should
    Purely for visual effect

    Create a full sized rectangle on the 0" plane and the move it to the bottom z order position


    Select the Fairy Shape and Cut

    Move the plane  to 0.000001"


    Paste the fairy shape
    so the fairy of now 0.000001 in front of the black plane

    I can't see this causing an issue 0.000001" is so tiny




    I Use Zing Air, Make The Cut - Pop Card Studio, WinXP- Win7 -Win10
    Paper Modellers I Revere Marc Hagan-Guirey ----- Yoshinobu Miyamoto ----- Peter Dahmen
    Gallery ID #26944 ----- Link to My Cloud Have a Look your Welcome to Make Use of the Files
  • CharoCharo Member Posts: 590
    @Crazy_Mr_Zing  That is very sneaky indeed!  Love it.  I want you to know thanks to you and Susan's videos and probably everybody else on the forum, I finally get the zero plane thing when making double popups.  Good grief took a year to understand it.
    Member 30818
  • Crazy_Mr_ZingCrazy_Mr_Zing Member Posts: 2,805
    I'm the first to admit there something very strange about how my mind works I have the this about not letting computer program beat me so I tinker until I find a way around.
    If I leave PCS alone a while I often forget about adding the zero plane rectangle for certain designs when I come back and then one why my card is not working
       
    I Use Zing Air, Make The Cut - Pop Card Studio, WinXP- Win7 -Win10
    Paper Modellers I Revere Marc Hagan-Guirey ----- Yoshinobu Miyamoto ----- Peter Dahmen
    Gallery ID #26944 ----- Link to My Cloud Have a Look your Welcome to Make Use of the Files
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