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Need your valued advice on which machine that can deliver this job well.

mrstpiemrstpie Member Posts: 4
Dear value member of make the cut,

My name is Steve, I am a newbie in this forum. My company is based in Indonesia, and it is focusing on photo album production. I have been trying to incorporate the die cut technique to our album using several machines like cameo, curio and laser cutting few months back. But the result is still far from our expectation.

I have done some research from this forum and I found out that : 
1. KNK force 
2. Silver Bullet

Both of these machines might be able to pull off the finishing I am looking for. The thickness and type of media we are cutting is around 1-2 mm thickness (mainly consist of 400 gsm art card paper glued to photo printed paper on both sides). I have tried with laser cutting and the results are bad. The sides are left with burnt mark all around and it is hard to control the appropriate settings.

Based on you experience, which type of machines that could deliver the job well ?


kind regards,
Steve


Comments

  • MeFlickMeFlick Member Posts: 8,913
    Welcome to the forum.  The first question since you note that you are wanting to put the machine into a production environment, is what do you mean by "production"?  Do you plan to use it to cut 10-20 a day?  hundreds a day, etc.?  Second, exactly what is it you are wanting to cut with it?  (I can't tell from your picture.  Is the A and R boxes" that hold a book?  Is there a full alphabet" to be cut (like the A and the R) or is there something else that is only a book?  The more details and information we have, the better information can be provided back to you.

    One reason I ask about how many you are hoping to cut is because you need to understand that both of these cutters are "drag blade" cutters that you would generally use a Mat to put your media on, insert the mat and media into the cutter to cut, then do again.  There is going to be some significant manual work to do each one.  The KNK cutter is limited to 15" cutting width. TheKNK Maxx Air and the Silver Bullet would provide at most a 24" cutting width.  The KNK Maxx and the SB would be more equal machines if you are wanting to compare apples to apples (but even then, you are comparing golden delicious to granny smith!  ;) :) )  All 3 cutters require you to determine and set different settings like blade depth, pressure, speed, etc.  Once you figure it out for your media, it should stay fairly consistent but will change as you go from new blade to more used blade; new mat to more used mat, etc.  Some people don't like having to mess with those settings, others of us don't mind.  We like the extra control it provides.  The KNK Force introduces a slightly different way of making settings and adds in a Z axis control.

    Depending upon your needs for quantity, consistency, etc. you might be better off looking to have a steel die made for a die cutting system like here: http://www.accucutcraft.com/custom-dies-custom-shape-pros
    (Note, I have never used them nor am I affiliated with them.) There may be other options for getting a custom die made as well.

    Finally, whenever anyone wants to know "can you do this" with a machine, I would highly recommend that you reach out to the distributors themselves, talk to them about what you want to do with the machine and see what they tell you about whether or not it will work for your needs.  I also know that both KNK and the SB people are more than willing to do test cuts for anyone on any media to ensure that they will be able to do what they want with the machines.  I have both a KNK Force and the SB, and have always had good customer service from both.
    Go Vols!
    image
    Cutting with 18" Silver Bullet and a KNK Force (the rest are collecting dust!)
  • MeFlickMeFlick Member Posts: 8,913
    @Gabe or other Admin - Note - that this is a duplicate post to this one here: http://forum.make-the-cut.com/discussion/44988/need-advice-which-machine-can-deliver-the-job-well#latest

    Some responses have been provided on both so you might want to combine them.
    Go Vols!
    image
    Cutting with 18" Silver Bullet and a KNK Force (the rest are collecting dust!)
  • GabeGabe Moderator Posts: 4,292
    Thank you, @MeFlick.  I closed the duplicate thread and pointed anyone who would respond to it to this thread.
  • GabeGabe Moderator Posts: 4,292
    @mrstpie, you might look into the KNK Maxx Air cutter also.  @SandyMcC is a KNK representative and I am sure she would be happy to discuss the capabilities of the Maxx Air with you.
  • mrstpiemrstpie Member Posts: 4
    @MeFlick thank you very much for your reply. The details go as follow :

    (1) we are trying to make a new sample line of products (mock ups), so we estimate maybe around 20-30 cuts a day. Size 20x20 cm.
    (2) we produce a portrait full pressed photo album, so we want to incorporate the letter cutting of the person's name into the album. for e.g : STEVE, so there will be 5 sheets of albums with letters from S-T-E-V-E. The thickness of each sheet is around 2 mm consist of : 
    1st layer : printed photo paper (260 gsm)
    2nd layer : art card (400 gsm)
    3rd layer : art card (400 gsm)
    4th layer : printed photo paper (260 gsm)

    these 4 layers are glued together during the production process and form the total thickness of around 2 mm on each page of the album. This is the exact same material in the picture of letter A and R that I posted before.

    See sample of what we are trying to achieve here @Liz_A @Di-lite

    Since I am based in Indonesia, there hasn't been any machine available that can deliver this job yet. The only options are the laser cut machine, which we tried before and the result is not as expected. (and some of the great laser cut machine will cost above S$ 8.000, which is obviously above our budget, since we only use it for paper cutting).

    Further usage, we would also like to try out to make a pop-up cards like the sample in pop-up peekaboo

    I have started to email both company about their machine capabilities. however, I would like to have some advise from experienced users here, since we haven't tried any cutting machine before except the silhouette cameo.

    @Gabe, thank you, I will also look into the KNK Maxx Air.
  • Liz_ALiz_A Member Posts: 9,092

    @mrstpie - ok more questions. Do you cut the same shapes out of each piece as described - printed photo paper (260 gsm), art card (400 gsm), art card (400 gsm), printed photo paper (260 gsm) - individually by hand and you want to now have a cutter to do that?

    OR

    Do you want to glue a larger sized sheet of each of those materials all together, and then cut out the shape once?

  • Liz_ALiz_A Member Posts: 9,092

    @mrstpie - you might want to look at this...this is cutting using a custom die for business card cutting. You would purchase dies for each of the letters that you would use.

    - I know there is a newer similar machine that folds up to put away, but I cannot think of the brand name.

  • mrstpiemrstpie Member Posts: 4
    @Liz_A it will be glueing all 4 layers into one sheet (1-2mm) thickness and needed to be cut in different shapes. That is why I am not sure the KNK or Silver Blue will have the power to cut that my photo sheet (1-2mm) thickness. Afraid the process will be troublesome (applying several phases to cut through) and might dull the blade real soon after a few jobs.


    From your suggestion, I have contacted one of the supplier in Jakarta regarding the custom die cutting machine as well. Sending in samples and see how they work.

    @Liz_A, have you ever cut the matte board (mounting board) before with your machine ? 
  • Liz_ALiz_A Member Posts: 9,092
    @mrstpie - I have the KNK Force, the KNK Maxx Air, and the KNK Zing. The Force and MA can cut matte board (within a thickness limit) but it is not something I cut very frequently.
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